Bush Haters Association - Argue Page

[BramJumelet]: nope, what crashes?

[Lord Kügenheim]: a few daysa ago elftown was down for a few hours. its on the front page i think.

[farfy girl]: I am aware of that crash, but it happened BEFORE I posted.

[Dil*]: okay..who actually cares? not me, move on.

[Weedy]: if its that big a problem for you farfy girl then repost them and move on this is simply too disturbing

[Goldice]: and any way, it wasn't nessecarily one of us. elftown guards are quite within their right to deletea ny wiki posting that they deem unsuitable. we tried to abide by our rules as we wrote them. in all fairness to you farfy girl, we understand that we haven't deleted all posts that break the rule, if we did that then weould be hardly any posts left. obviously someone felt the need to delete your posts if they found them offensive. if you aren't happy then go else where. other members have had posts deleted, i have had posts deleted and im managment but do you see any of us complaining? move on to some where different if you can't get along with what we beleive in. thankyou

[Goldice]: wow biggest post i've written

[farfy girl]: That's the thing, though. What is considered offensive?

[BramJumelet]: just post the damn posts again!

[Dil*]: umm...if it's full of swear words?

[farfy girl]: It isn't, it's very long, and difficult to rewrite. I don't have time to do that or sit around arguing with liberal fenceposts...

[Maurer's conclusions]: Democrats aren't liberal. They are conservative.

[Weedy]: which is the whole problem in the us.... there arent no liberal party..... only one which is less conservative than the republicans

[Dil*]: ya..

[this site fucking sux]: i cant believe they might ban the monkeys from the us!!!!!!1 not fair!!!! i hate kerry and his anti-monkeyness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Dil*]: nobody cares about monkies..if you really like monkies they should be kept in the wild.

[this site fucking sux]: hes relly thincking of banning monkeys from the us in general!!!!!!11 he wants to ship them to africa!!! no more monkeys!!!!!1 and you spelled "monkeys" wrong. bastard!

[Dil*]: uh, i don't give a flying rat's ass. Did you just call me a bastard, or are you refering to kerry?

[this site fucking sux]: i called u a bastrd for not liking the monkeys!!!!!!!1

[Dil*]: ...just fall in a never ending pit or something; god you are such a immature brat.

[this site fucking sux]: PLEASE!!!!1 YOU DONT LIKE THE MONKEYS!!!1 U SUCK

[Dil*]: i don't dislike monkeys or like them....they're better off in the wild.

[this site fucking sux]: theyre not gonna stay in the us PERIOD!!!! he wants to ship every last one to africa!!!!1

[Dil*]: God, if you really like monkeys they shouldn't be kept in bloody cages, what the hell is your problem.

[this site fucking sux]: he wants to get rid of the ones in the wild!!!!! duh you bastard moron

[Dil*]: huh, what the hell? Monkey's don't originate in America..they belong in africa..

[this site fucking sux]: yeah but we have some in the jungle places

[Dil*]: man-made jungles.

[this site fucking sux]: whatever he wants to get rid of the ones in the "man-made jungles" in the wild1!!!!!!!1

[Dil*]: i don't care, just go cry in a corner or something.

[this site fucking sux]: no bitch

[this site fucking sux]: and yoiu dont look like sesshomaru!!!!!!!1

[Dil*]: I'm not sesshomaru...and you're an idiot kid.

[this site fucking sux]: but u dont look like sesshomaru you butchy dyke lady bitch!!!!!!!!!!!1 i hate you! u prolly dunt even kno who sesshomaru IS! BITCH!! EAT A FART AND DIE!!!!! PUSSY MUNCHER!!! SHOVE IT!!!!!

[Dil*]: sesshoumaru is Inuyasha's brother you stupid little bitch brat of a child; under-educated scum.

[this site fucking sux]: you didnt need a sem-colon there you fart head!!! shows how educated you are, BITCH! PUSSY MUNCHER!!! I HOPE YOU CHOKE ON RAT TURDS!!!!!1

[Dil*]: Umm, go fuck a monkey...and i think you don't know how to use a semi-colon, and you spelled everything wrong. Semi-colon is a pause, a comma, except longer...to connect similiar ideas.

[this site fucking sux]: NO IT ISN'T!!!!!1 IT'S WHEN YOU FART IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SENTENCE!!!!

[Dil*]: Stop abusing the caps, it makes you sound even more retarded. You use the word fart alot don't you? You immature pre-teen piece of shit.

[this site fucking sux]: how do u no im preteen!??!! dont use age against me!!!!! it says you can argue regardless of discrimination of your age you pussy munching rule breaker!!!!!!!!!11111

[Dil*]: Umm, because it says your age in your house? Stupid bimbo bastard, your description insults your intelligence better than whatever insult i use.

[this site fucking sux]: NO IT DOESNT YOU CUNT FUCKER!!! EAT A FART AND DIE!!!

[Dil*]: Abusing the caps again? I can see it now..in real life you'd be that spoiled brat screaming and turning an ugly shade of red.

[this site fucking sux]: ur so stupid. you act like an old fart and you dont care about the monkeys. you old hag. and you watch anime. thats sad for your age.

[Dil*]: Are you joking? Loads of people watch anime and are older than me. And i'm not old you ignorant anus.

[this site fucking sux]: its still pathetic. and stop bragging. your like three years older than me. big whoop. i bet you sure shit feel special!!! cunt.

[Dil*]: Bragging? LOL, if i started bragging i would have to fill this whole comments box with my achievements. Asshat.

[Dil*]: besides, being the maker of egotistical bastards..

[this site fucking sux]: well you feel special... lesbian.

[Dil*]: Is that all you can do? Knock my sexuality..hardly effective or offensive you inadequate loser. I'm not going to waste anymore time with a useless piece of fecal matter such as yourself. Have a pleasant day, and don't forget to dig a hole and throw yourself in it.

[this site fucking sux]: whatever. cry me a river, jump in it, and drown.

[Weedy]: amazing how primitive people are...... grow up kid..... get a life and some social connections you need it....

[Doormat]: god, [this site fucking sux] plz go to some child molester's house and get lost..."young'in"

[Lord Kügenheim]: [this site fucking sux] get the hell out of my wiki, it clearly stares in the rules that BAD LANGUAGE ISNT ALLOWD. Now if you want to go ranting on about Monkeys of all things then piss off and go tell someone who gives a shit. Next time you come back here and abuse this page, we will report you to the guards for breaking our clearly stated rules. Have a nice day!

[Dil*]: sigh..

[Maurer's conclusions]: Just to point out to you Lord K, isn't shit bad language?

[Dil*]: just read last comments.

[Doormat]: ummm...changing words :)

[Lord Kügenheim]: shit isnt as bad as some of the things he has been coming out with.

[Lord Kügenheim]: [farfy girl], this is a perfect example of things we delete.

[farfy girl]: What?? Are you saying that I've been using terribly bad words, or that my opinion is worse than swearing?

[Lord Kügenheim]: no nothing of the sort, i was just using this as an example of the kinda trash we delete. We dont even know if your got deleted... yet.

[farfy girl]: And off of that subject, I have an objective question for you. How liberal do you guys think the democratic party in the US should be? Like they are now, Socialist, Communist, or what? I'm just curious.

[farfy girl]: Is [this site fucking sux] the resident conservative here at the moment? If she is, she is a disgrace. I hope that she never shows her face in the Bush Supporters Association...

[Goldice]: farfy girl if u carrry on the way u r im afraid you wont be showing your face in BHA for a while.sorry but...

[Maurer's conclusions]: They should be socialist-democracy.

[BramJumelet]: they arent even close to that, i'm guessing for social democrats (why do all americans think that liberal means governmental control?)

[Maurer's conclusions]: I know they're not close to that. Democrats are conservative when compared to some other countries.

[BramJumelet]: i know, where i live they wouldn't even be considered left :D

[Maurer's conclusions]: Where do you live?

[BramJumelet]: the netherlands, i think they would be considered center-right in the netherlands

[Maurer's conclusions]: In Sweden also. Maybe even right.

[Weedy]: in denmark they most cirtanly qualify as right..... but if anyone think that we have govermental control over here they better think again..... both christania and roskilde festival proves that.....

[BramJumelet]: lol, jeah a lot of americans think european nations are socialist :S (i wish :D)

[Weedy]: socialists?? more like communists.....

[BramJumelet]: how can 1 nation be communist? (i am a communist and believe me its impossible :D) you probably do mean socialist (socialist = cuba, north korea)

[Weedy]: well communism is a govermental form not a way of life..... the ussr goverment was cummunistic....

[BramJumelet]: no, the government-style was socialist but they were communists (kinda difficult to explain, but communism is what they want to reach and communism can only be achieved through socialism)

[BramJumelet]: ps. sorry for the late responce i was bussy, lol)

[Maurer's conclusions]: Keep in mind that communism is both a style of government and also an economic policy.

[BramJumelet]: yes, i know but this economic policie can also only be used in a communist world, as long as thats not the case its called socialist... (Trust me, i really know what i'm talking about, lol :P)

[Maurer's conclusions]: I trust you, I was simply pointing it out.

[BramJumelet]: ok :D just 1 more link before we go back on topic :D http://www.marxmail.org/faq/socialism_and_communism.htm thank you now back on topic :P

[BramJumelet]: ohw wait thats a socialist link so its kinda biased :D http://www.geocities.com/commiett/difference.html is kinda better (not great)

[farfy girl]: Now wait a minute, what am I doing that would make me kicked out? I am following your rules. I am not being rude to anyone, and I am not swearing. So far, I have not even done a lot of political speech.

[farfy girl]: and BramJumelet: socialism is a lot of government control. My reason for saying this is that if the government has so much power that it chooses who has how much money, and makes a monopoly over things like healthcare, that's a lot more than the US's current setup, for instance.

[BramJumelet]: farfy girl... no and this discusion is not about communism and socialism so i will not give any arguments against it anymore

[BramJumelet]: welll, i cant resist... socialism IS a lot of governmental control but they do not make a monopoly out of everything, helth-care is free so that was a bad example... and no, it doesn't choose how many money anyone gets someone has to work for this money... so please if you dont know what socialism or communism is, dont talk about it

[farfy girl]: Ok, your last post didn't make a whole lot of sense. If someone makes a lot of money in a socialist place, he is taxed extremely disproportionately; that is a big part of socialism. When they do that and give it to the poor or whoever they choose to, that is redistribution of wealth. It's rediculous to say that the government, which is composed of people just as human as the rich man and the poor man, has the right to steal from one and give to the other like that. What a man earns, he should be allowed to keep, and if he wanted to give it to a poor person, let him give it to the poorman of his choice; one that he trusts won't blow the money on booze, for example.

[BramJumelet]: a. there is no tax under socialism... b. they give the money the government earns back to the people (not just the poor) through a lot of ways c. capitalism does the same but than the money doesn't go to the government but to the multinationals d. africans work much harder than europeans and americans but they dont earn a shit, thats the point in fair distribution of wealth... wait i'll quote marx: From each according to his ability, to each according to his deeds (thats socialism) 

[Goldice]: ok so i think we now know what the definitions are.can we not have WW3 please, i couldnt cope with the mess

[Weedy]: farfy girl<<< just so you know..... here in denmark everything from social security and healthcare to education and libarys...... but the goverment dosent have a monopoly on any of those things..... we have private schools and hospitals too.... the biggest problem here in dk is that many private schools are not living up to the standards the goverment require..... aka make sure it isent a koran or bible school which refuse to teach the kids danish or teach adam and eve instead of the big bang theory......or that the private hospitals use unapproved medicin

[farfy girl]: why should the PRIVATE schools have to live up to the government's standards?? If they are private, why shouldn't they be allowed to teach Adam and Eve if they wanted to? In that regard, it kind of is a monopoly if the private schools have to be so much like the goverment schools. Furthermore, how could you not have tax under a socialist government? The money doesn't come out of nowhere, y'know. I didn't say that the rich and middle class don't get anything, either. It's just that if you tax the rich disproportionately and give back the same to everyone, the poor man ends up with more than he started with, and the rich one less. That is redistribution.

[BramJumelet]: beceause they live out of rest-capita... that means that if someone works in a capitalist society they create a product that is for example word 30$ a hour and the man gets payd 10$ a hour than that 20$ goes to his boss who didn't did a shit for it... but in the case of a socialist society this money goes to the government which gives it back to the society in many different ways... so it doesn't end up in the pocket of some rich ass. and guess who's the rich man? multinationals who hire managers and sit on they're ass while they're employees work they'r ass off... most of the rich people didn't do a shit for the money they earn

[Dil*]: yes...and it's completely out of control...corporate exucutives in sweden only make 12 times the amount of money as a normal worker...in britain it's like 50 and in australia it's like 15 AND in america, the average CE makes 110 times that of an average worker.

[Weedy]: the private schools shouldent be able to teach adam and eve because its bad for the society as a whole when some people dont get a good education or run around like a bunch of freaking fanatics...... and ofcourse there is taxes but as the other tow allready explained that to you so.....

[farfy girl]: Just to let you all know, I am basically quitting Elftown except for communication with a couple of close friends. I am getting a job and starting college soon, so I will have little to no extra time on my hands. I tell you this so that you won't think I'm chickening out on you socialists; I just have an extremely busy life.

[Dil*]: kay goodluck with that....

[farfy girl]: Thanks. ^_^ And goodluck to all of you guys. No hard feelings with the debates.

[Dil*]: nah, politics is an ugly thing..i've found out over time, people get into vicious battle about crap like this...and if they met in different situations they would be great friends. I've found even though we share different political views, we can still have ALOT in common; more than you or the other person would ever know.

[kduncan]: Even though farfy girl won't be around to see this I'd like to argue the point of public and private schools in the US being alike. I've gone to both private and public schools, and they are not alike. Private schools must adhere to government standards regarding the level to which the students are educated.. not with regard to the content taught the students. Yes, private school kids still need to learn math and science and must meet basic government standards with regards to the CORE subject matter, but that's it. Anything beyond the core subject matter is up to the discretion of the people deciding the direction of the school - usually a board of directors of some sort. It's been my

[kduncan]: expereince that private schools aren't overall better than public, nor that public are necessarily better than private (though public schools in Canada beat either in the US hands down); but that it depends on the school itself. One of the best schools I went to was a public school in a rural community in central New York: small classes, concerned parents, alot of whom actually taught in the school, dedicated students, with a minimum spent on sports programs and a maximum spent on academic programs. Oh, and by the way, the biology teacher in my rural PUBLIC high school did teach creationism as a THEORY. He also taught that outside the legends of many of the wortld's people there

[kduncan]: is no concrete evidence of creationism. I was very fortunate to have him for both biology and earth science in high school, not many PhD's work in the public school system outside administration.

[StumbleineFaith]: god bless america, ahem the world.

[BramJumelet]: i have learned both creationism and adam and eve beceause i was on a catholic school but they should teach creationism beceause of the law in the netherlands

[this site fucking sux]: its adam and eve, not adam and steve!

[Dil*]: umm that was random and uncalled for.

[kduncan]: It's also an overused phrase used by people who can't argue against homosexuality logically or effectively. Not having any real argument, they fall back on a "cute" little catch phrase.

[Dil*]: is that all they have? it's pathetic.

[Flowing Destiny]: Well its too bad that most of America defines marriage as between a man and a woman...oops.....and it was a large number too people so deal with it. Oh and my info?, it was from all the election coverage from just about every single station broadcasting it.

[Flowing Destiny]: And what if Bush wins the election? I hope you people kill yourselves cause you'll have nothing to bitch about

[Flowing Destiny]: And Lord whatever the hell that is, Not many americans give a shit about what foreigners think and you're not even near the age to vote over here so that further makes you an ignorant person cause you only care cause its popular to hate bush....thats why all this bush hater thing started in the first place cause it was cool for foreigners to hate our president and for everyone to hate our president which is wrong and ignorant

[Lord Kügenheim]: Not at all actually. i made this wiki simply because walking around elftown i found that most people dont like him, people like [Dil*] and [BarleySinger] people who have REAL reasons to hate the guy. I made this page for them and for the people of elftown not me. So dont question me on my motives for making this page. And besides i dont like Bush because of what he is doing to my country. We've become the underdogs in all this whilst america tramples all over us. THAT is my reason.

[kduncan]: Angel Zadkiel, I'm an American living in the US, and for the record, I don't hate Bush, I hate seeing what the administration he is part of is doing to this country. perhaps you're too young to realise what America was like before the Patriot Act, before people were arrested for simply speaking their mind in public, before the books you read were scrutinised by the FBI just to make sure you weren't reading the "wrong material". Perhaps you don't remember a time when people couldn't be barred from flying on a privately owned airline for simply belonging to the "wrong" political party, or when there was true freedom of religion. True Americans do give a shit, Angel Zadkiel, (continued..)

[kduncan]: they give a shit that OTHER PEOPLE'S RIGHTS aren't trampled even if they personally don't have the same beliefs. True American's realise that personal freedom is the very reason this country was founded. Ture American's know that freedom given up for the sake of being "safe" isn't truly freedom at all. I look forward to the time when America truly belongs to all American people again, and not just to a handful of people with enough money to pull votes.

[Maurer's conclusions]: Angel Zadkiel, could you please explain to me how and why such a large number of people support Bush. To me, it is inconceivable.

[Flowing Destiny]: They think he has more moral values than Kerry. Morals were higher on their minds than the war or the economy. 

[Flowing Destiny]: kduncan...I was around you insolent whelp

[Duredhel]: Nevertheless, Bush's 'moral' compass seems to be more inclined towards oil and genocide.

[Flowing Destiny]: It makes me feel safer alright? And if you stopped listening to the crap left wing websites and news agencies are saying than maybe you'd get a clue about whats really going on....and who won Florida without any problems this time??? Hmm....I dunno....maybe Bush so if you got such a big problem with the U.S. re-electing bush go to England with that Lord guy and get "trampled" on when his country agreed to go to war with us. Oh and just to let you guys know....Iraq was bribing the U.N. Security counsel and no matter what we would say France was going to protect their oil interests in Iraq no matter what so they were never going to approve it.

[Flowing Destiny]: So if you got a problem with us electing Bush and are in this country move out of it. Go to Canada or Mexico just get out of here if you got such a big problem with what America has decided. And to any foreigners....deal with it. I've gone and voted for bush cause thats who I feel is the better president....and you may think I'm wrong but 3.5million more people than Kerry got in the popular vote think I'm right as well. America has decided so suck it up and deal with it. I'm sure you people will still bitch and moan about it but I dont care. There's nothing you can do about it so just go and leave bush and all the americans who voted for him, the winner, alone. Good day

[Lord Kügenheim]: Our country didnt agree to go to war. (in my oppinion) Bush blackmailed Blair into doing something he knew was wrong. No one in this country supported the war.

[Duredhel]: Angel, you just typed 15 lines without saying anything O_o it amazes me how closely you follow Bush's example

[Flowing Destiny]: It wasnt for oil you dumb shit. If it was for oil then why are gas prices here are as high as they are? Wouldnt we have had a special deal with Iraq and we'd be getting tons more oil from them and we'd have lower gas prices, right? See...the whole oil for food thing where the Oil Iraq sold, the profitswould be directly given to the Iraqi people but, most of the UN kept that money for its self.

[Flowing Destiny]: we blackmailed you? Where is your proof? I mean hard evidence not the fact you people are over there

[Duredhel]: LMAO! for god's sake I can't believe you can say that after Bush's own FBI is investigating him for giving preference in State contracts to Halliburton and its trading partners, of course it was for OIL, but the American people were not gonna see a dime of that money because that money went to provate companies, and as we all know, provate companies, in reality, have no flag nor nation.

[Lord Kügenheim]: Who said there was proof. IN MY OPPINION seems to show that its what I think. Blair was smarter than to go against the people and join a war no one wanted to get involved in. He risked losing re-election and he knew it but he still gave the go ahead. There deffinately had to be some naugty words exchanged somewhere.

[Flowing Destiny]: He's not investigating him you dumb ass, the Haliburton thing wasnt for oil it was for contracting. Like buildings and such. And Bush isnt part of Halliburton...its the VP Cheney who USED to be part of that company

[Lord Kügenheim]: And could you please stop swearing, it forbids it in the Bush Haters Association - rules

[Flowing Destiny]: He also re-won his Prime minister spot didnt he? So it seems like most people dont have a problem with him.

[Duredhel]: I never said the Halliburton thing was for oil, but if he gave state contracts within the USA to Halliburton its obviously conceivable that he had the same kind of.. "preferences" with matters such as the Iraqui oil, lets just face it, war makes money, no reason to deny it is there? Besides counting that he's getting millions for every G.I that got killed, I say its a sweet deal don't you think?

[i am gelfling]:

[Lord Kügenheim]: no he didnt actually. our elections havent been yet. Regionally Labour lost many seats in my hometown (which is a political battleground) showing they are still popular enough, but not as much as before the war.

[Flowing Destiny]: Stop listening to Left wing media for once. And war doesnt make money. During war the economy suffers slightly cause most of the resources are going towards making weapons and such. Its after the war that the economy goes up because people getting back want to buy things and a lot of people want to go out and get what they didnt have during the war.

[Lord Kügenheim]: What? British people lost their husbands and sons in a foreign land fighiting another countrys war. The people dont give a shite about the Economy. Loss of british life comes first for us.

[Flowing Destiny]: A war that Britain came with us and the US has been losing more soldiers than you people. You just cant accept that maybe he wasnt blackmailed and that maybe he agreed because England and the US were on friendly relations. Its people like you who want to screw all this shit up. I have to go cause I actually have a life and cant waste it in here with you people. Its ignorance from you people and your unwillingness to accept the facts and your need to just keep on taking every little bit of fact that is out there and spinning it into anti-us bullshit. Good Day

[Maurer's conclusions]: You keep on attacking 'left wing media.' Could you elaborate on that. Just because you sit at home being brainwashed by Fox TV doesn't mean you should insult people who are actually aware of what is going on in the world.

[kduncan]: Angel Zadkiel, I think before you go throwing insults around you'd better have the guts to put some info in your Elftown house. First off, I never insulted you, secondly, it's easy to throw insults when you can remain anonymous.. isn't it? I believe you owe me an apology.

[Flowing Destiny]: I watch CNN and CBS and ABC not just fox news alright? I even, for some reason, watch the Daily Show just for fun.

[Flowing Destiny]: And people the election is over and all done so just let it go. I dont mean to get all Yoda but "Let go of your hate"

[Flowing Destiny]: oh and the Angel Zadkiel name is just something I use on here for fun. I dont bother to put up personal info cause I only use this house just for fun. And there will be no apology. I am treated bad here to and no apologies were given. Lets just drop the whole hate bush cause there's no point cause he'll be here for 4 more years so get over it and when his term is over you'll be done with him ok?

[Dil*]: let go of our hate? we're handling it pretty good i think, have you gone to the 'support bush wikis' they've been complete jackasses over the victory...

[kduncan]: Angel Zadkiel, suppose you tell me how, exactly, I treated you poorly. In fact, you can quote my words directly. I didn't really expect an apology, but that's ok, you've proven yourself; that is, you've proven what you're really like. People who can only insult another person, but offer no logical argument to prove their point are the type of people I'd expect to support a president who does exactly the same thing. So take your insult, pocket it, and I hope you feel a whole lot better about yourself. You say to drop the hate, you'd do well to take your own advise.

[Flowing Destiny]: Well then they need to stop being jackasses. I think Kerry did a good job as a matter of fact. He gave bush a run for his money. I wont rag on someones choice for a candidate. I may rag at the person for saying dumb untrue crap but not for the candidate they support. And where's your logical proof kd? So our president insults other people? You should drop your hate too, just cause no one supports your party doesnt mean you gotta be anal and a s.o.b. about it. You need to really just calm down and stop trying to make enemies just cause someone you didnt want to win did. Most of america wanted him in office, thats why he's the first candidate to get over 50% (cont.)

[Flowing Destiny]: of the popular vote since the 80's. 3.5 million more voters think he's a better choice than Kerry so just live with it and stop being a pain in the ass and trying to make yourself seem all high and mighty when you arent

[Lord Kügenheim]: Look angel. We respect your oppinion, and we expect the same from you. Those are the terms of speaking here and it isnt much. RESPECT for other people who may not agree with you. now as im sure we can all see, you are the only one being agressive around here and if you expect anyone to care or listen to you, i would advise you to add a certain degree of compassion to your writings.

[kduncan]: Hate? Where have I expressed hate, Angel Zadkiel? Show some proof as in a link to a post in which I expressed hate. In fact, I think I specifically said that I DON'T hate Bush as a person. I'm just asking for a logical argument from you to prove your points, and I get "anal"? and s.o.b.? and "calm down"? and "stop making enemies"? and "pain in the ass"? and "high and mighty"? I think you need to take a good, long look inward, Angel Zadkiel.

[Dil*]: i think you're being too civil, [kduncan], when someone pulls shit like that i wouldn't stand for it. But i commend you for your excellent manners and tolerance.

[kduncan]: You know, _Dilandau_, I believe that putting the best foot forward is the best way to show what Green's are, and what we aren't. I won't stoop to the sheer intolerance I see displayed by many of Bush's supporters. I see them come to this board and bash the people who post to the Bush Hater's forum, I see them ignore facts and spout insults when presented with those facts, and I believe it shows what the phrase "compassionate conservative" really means here in the US; quite simply it's just another term for "intolerance". And thank you. I appreciate the support from both you and Lord Kugenheim.

[Oblivious Commentary]: [kduncan] has the right idea. If you stoop to that level, well that's pretty much just creating more and more tension between the members here. Which is definately not what people trying to express thier opinions need. If someone's wrong, maybe they believed the wrong people, heard the wrong information, no? If they truly believed what they were saying, they did nothing wrong, right?

[Lord Kügenheim]: We're not saying that wat Angel said was wrong [Oblivious Commentary]. We like it when bush supporters come to our wiki and say stuff. It was the way he said it that we dont agree with.

[kduncan]: People should be able to support their position without stooping to belittleing and name calling. Angel Zadkiel basically agreed that American civil liberties have been squelched (and apparently that's ok with him/her), but in agreeing with me proceeded to sling a slew of derogatory comments at me. That's what was wrong, and that's was lessens his/her argument. Apparently s/he believes that it is ok to erode what the American constitution sets out as basic rights for every person (not just Americans), and it's his/her right to hold that belief; but s/he doesn't have the right to lash out at violently at people who hold a different opinion.

[Dil*]: yes well, there's almost no point in talking civilly to people like that, i mean you tried to reason with them first and they still were immature enough to carry on with the name calling.

[Lord Kügenheim]: I can see where your coming from [Dil*], but people like that arent worth someone stooping to their level when one can quite as effectively talk to them with the manners expected of a mature individual.

[Flowing Destiny]: none of you are on any level. You people will still complain when there's nothing you can do about it. Thats what pisses me off...complaining about something that is already decided and done with. You arent on any level cause you are too below to reach it. See I do have manners....but when shit like what is going on in here happens I get pissed off and when that happens you people act all high and mighty when actually you are not. People like you piss me off and I swear and yell when I get pissed off like most people who are alive do.

[Lord Kügenheim]: We're not moaning. This is Politics, the ugliest buisiness on the planet. People, argue, discuss, debate and complain about things they dont agree with, and if you dont understand that then its your own stupid fault for coming here and not understanding what we are doing.

[kduncan]: I find it interesting that the people who disagree with the Bush administration act civilly, and the people who support Bush come to this forum.. and they don't have to be here, perhaps they come here to get angry, spout off, and get their blood pressure up.. are the ones who are so rude and intolerant. I suppose that when you have so little power in your own life it gives you some small bit of pleasure to come to a forum and complain, and swear, and berate people who disagree with you. You want to make a difference, Angel Zadkiel? Get active in your political party. Join a group of like-minded people. Stop being so angry and hate-filled all the time, you'll live longer.

[Dil*]: Tolerance, such a simple word. Yet many people don't seem to understand it. Tolerance, is a huge part of politeness, and maturity. Yet you, [Flowing Destiny] have none of that. Face the facts, there will always be people that disagree with your opinions. Do you go randomly insulting people? No. Do you go all melodramatic and accuse people of being hate-filled just because they disagree with you? No. You respect peoples’ opinions. If you give no respect out, you will gain none. And so far, you have not made any difference at all, you have gained no respect. Either you get your facts and act civilly or just get out. We’re tired of your name-calling and lack of manners. 

[Flowing Destiny]: You talk of intolerance? You were the one who called me a hillbilly. You act all high and mighty like you are better than most people. Dont deny it. You have this top of the mountain attitude and no matter what I say somehow you people will turn it into a morality thing or something like that. Whenever it suits you all of a sudden you get manners. Now I'll admit that Lord K has had manners in this whole thing but mister D over here is one to talk. I do have my facts and even when I say them you say I only get them from FOX. How am I supposed to get my point across when somehow you people always try to find fault. Even when I tried to just tell people to let it go you shove it(cont)

[Flowing Destiny]: in my face. And maturity?? You have a banner that says we hate you Mr.President. Thats really mature. I'm sorry but until you people become a little more open minded then I have no reason to put up with any of your immature drivel and lack of respect towards me. So I swear? Thats who I am. I am not going to change who I am to just suit your little tastes on this wiki. Good Day

[kduncan]: A person with maturity, with a mind that is reasoning (and reasonable) knows when s/he is wrong. Angel Zadkiel, you were worng to insult a person who said nothing that could be considered insulting to you. I said nothing insulting to you and you do absolutely owe me an apology. I've asked you to post a link to the post in which I insulted you, and you've failed to do so. You were wrong, admit it: admit your mistake and take your own advise to move on.

[Dil*]: Is that all you can do? Insult out banner, pfft, i think he should move on. And as i scroll up, i never talked to you directly before that last post.

[Lord Kügenheim]: Angel, that was immature, it was supposed to be. That banner was created in a time when this place wasnt sereous. I decided to keep it to remind me what this place used to be like and what it is now.

[Flowing Destiny]: Sorry I confused you with someone else Mr.D. I apologize. I confused you with someone else. I am not going to apologize to whats her name. I dont like her and I dont care if she never did insult me. I am not going to apologize to someone like her. 

[kduncan]: "Someone like her"? Explain. I've never exchanged comments with you before the first post I wrote about the Patriot Act, and you jumped all over my post for it. Explain what you mean when you say, "Someone like her" Because, quite frankly, you never knew a thing about me before I called into question whether you remembered what life was like in the US before the Patriot Act. In your own words, "I am not going to apologise to whats her name. I don't like her and I don't care if she never did insult me, I am not going to apologise to someone like her."

[kduncan]: Angel Zadkiel's words: "It wasnt for oil you dumb shit. If it was for oil then why are gas prices here are as high as they are?" Economics 101, Angel Zadkiel. Whenever there is a monopoly on a product, say.. oil.. prices for that product will rise. When the US invaded Iraq we also took control of the largest oil field in the world. We now hold the monopoly on oil. Frankly, oil prices need to go higher, American citizens need to learn that oil is a limited commodity. The world's oil fields are expected to be bled dry (largely by the US) by 2015. Our nation is doing little to nothing to encourage developement of alternative energy sources.

[kduncan]: Of course, when the president appoints an oil executive as head of the Energy Department you can't really expect the government to look at any source of energy outside of say.. oil.

[kduncan]: Angel Zadkiel: "It makes me feel safer alright?" Yes, you and alot of other Americans elected a president out of FEAR. The political advertisements played by the Republican party sure did play up the fear element, didn't they? What, with constant footage from 911, watching those towers being hit over and over, then the picture of Bush "keeping the country safe". And this after he said he wouldn't abuse footage from 911. It's a shame when people elect a president out of fear rather than out of the belief that s/he is the best person for the job. And what about those threats Cheney made? Remember those? How he threatened that the US would see more terrorist attacks unless Bush was re-elected?

[kduncan]: Odd, isn't it, how the vice president of the United States actually threatened the people he's supposed to work for? Reminds me how the mob used to offer "protection" to businesses. You know, "You pay us so much a month, and we'll make sure we don't rob your place of business."

[kduncan]: Angel Zadkiel: "He's not investigating him you dumb ass, the Haliburton thing wasnt for oil it was for contracting. Like buildings and such. And Bush isnt part of Halliburton...its the VP Cheney who USED to be part of that company." And Halliburton sure is making a mint on the rebuilding of Iraq, isn't it? Those are buildings.. well, used to be buildings.. that the US destroyed, and that Halliburton is now replacing (at the expense of the American tax-payer). Yes, war is very, very profitable. Those Halliburton contractors are making $100,000.00 dollars for a few months worth of work. How much are the grunts who are protecting their butts making? Maybe $25,00.00 a year you think? Yes,

[kduncan]: it was Cheney who USED to be employed by Halliburton, and how much was his seperation package worth? Several million dollars. How much is the American taxpayer paying Cheney? Not a few million dollars, that's for sure. So let's see.. I have Halliburton on one hand paying me several million.. and Joe Schmo, American taxpayer, paying me peanuts in comparison.. where do you think his loyalty lies bucko? I'll give you a hint: It ain't with Joe Schmo.

[Flowing Destiny]: you dont know any of that you are just paranoid. You are making assumptions. I'm not saying you're lying but you are rushing to judge

[kduncan]: Find out the truth about the US military budget, and how that compares to the military budgets of the rest of the world, including the so-called "axis of evil". http://ww11.e-tractions.com/truemajority/servlet/Gamelet;jsessionid=EEAB69169AFCA0E2C5334AA0DA6BCC2F?req=BjEzO6PaM3E3tzM6bjEFtXM6B3Ef%2BWC3Q%2FmabjF9b9Z1ozMzGjEft2MzMjEEt3AaB3Ef%2Ba5ZpiFkv4x%3D

[kduncan]: I think it really bugs you, Angel Zadkiel, that I don't live my life in fear. That's why I didn't vote for Bush, because I'm not afraid. The truth is.. Bush is a horrible administrator. He has been a failure all his life, and he's a failure as a president. He failed at college, he failed at business, and he's failing in his job as a president. Good thing he had the fear card to play, because without that he'd have had nothing at all. 

[kduncan]: And if you're going to sit there in your easy chair and say I'm wrong, you'd better be able to prove it. Go ahead, pull up some links and prove that I'm wrong. I'm sure everyone watchiing this wiki will be looking to see you put your links where your foul mouth is.

[Dil*]: wow, you guys are impressive...got it all memorized..

[Flowing Destiny]: I make arguments myself, not shove someone elses info in someones face. I actually take the news and I use it. I dont put up links cause I dont get it from websites because I listen to real news not what someone who is possibly biased says. Your website seems like it would be biased because of the true majority part of the link. People like to think that they are the right people and the true this or that when they arent. And no it doesnt bug me. You are an american to wether I like it or not so you shouldnt live in fear cause I dont. I dont need links to prove my point.

[Flowing Destiny]: And your link is a very biased site, just look at all the pictures they have on the opening page. Its only pictures making fun of republicans and the current administration. They can be taking your "facts" and making them very anti-bush. Thats why I dont use websites and such to prove my points. They all have the potential to be biased. I rather get news from neutral parties then to find a site or something that is in tune with my views so that I can get the information that I think is "correct. Its 3:30 a.m. and I'm tired so goodnight all.

[kduncan]: No, I don't have it memorised, _Dilandau_, I went back and looked it up. Angel Zadkiel, disprove the information with a link of your own. If you think the information is untrue because the name of the site is "True Majority" simply back up your opinion with proof. Do you even have any proof? I posted links, and you're saying the information contained at those sites is wrong, well show some proof that what you say is true. But of course.. you can't prove your point, because everytihng is baised. Do you even realise how stupid that remark is? Do you realise that, yes, everything is biased, but that just because something shows bias doesn't mean it can't be the truth. You could go to the

[kduncan]: Department of Defense website and pull up the information, would that be biased as well? You can co to C-SPAN for news. I'm not asking for opinions here, I'm asking for hard, cold facts.. hard cold facts can be researched and proven. Can you do that? Or are you willing to sit back in and accept the pap the Bush administration shoves down your throat each day. If you have no proof, I suggest you go back to that insipid competing wiki that Bush supporters frequent. You'll not be challenged for proof of anything there I'd wager.

[kduncan]: Angel Zadkiel: "Its 3:30 a.m. and I'm tired so goodnight all." Either you were lying about the time, Angel Zadkiel, or you're not even in the US. I live in the Central time zone, and it was roughly 8:30 pm when I was posting, that means that the latest it could have been where you are, had you been in the US, was 9:30 pm. If it was 3:30 am, that would put you in.. Europe.. possibly Eastern Europe.

[kduncan]: Angel Zadkiel: "You are making assumptions. I'm not saying you're lying but you are rushing to judge" and "He's not investigating him you dumb ass, the Haliburton thing wasnt for oil it was for contracting. Like buildings and such." Ok, Angel Zadkiel, on the one hand you say I have no proof, that it's only my opinion that Halliburton is making a bundle (billions) on re-building buildings that the US destroyed, but on the other hand you say that Halliburton is in Iraq "contracting. Like buildings and such." So.. which is it? Was I correct in saying that Halliburton is in Iraq (with no-bid contracts no less) rebuilding buildings the US destroyed? Or are you correct in saying that, er,

[kduncan]: Halliburton is in Iraq "contracting. Like buildings and such"? Do you even realise that you've said that Halliburton is doing precisely what I said it's doing?

[kduncan]: The following information is from The Borgen Project: http://borgenproject.org "The U.S. military budget is more than 37-times as large as the combined spending of the seven "rogue" states (Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan and Syria). The U.S. accounts for almost half of all military spending in the world."

[Flowing Destiny]: It was 3:30 when I did that posting. I live in P.A. There are different time zones in the U.S. honey and I was posting at 3:30 a.m. lastnight I didnt lie. No I never said they werent in Iraq. You are very good at twisting what other people say and turning it into what you want to hear. You dont get the point that I dont like to go to websites and get info off of there. I like to work for it a bit and get info off of the news and read it in papers and such. I dont need to rely on websites for my info. Thats why I dont have any links to sites and such. And I never said any of those sites had wrong information. I looked at the opening page for the site and I didnt even go in (cont)

[kduncan]: And from www.cdi.org: World's Largest Military Budgets: ($U.S. Billions) United States 416.0, Russia* 65.0, China* 47.0, Japan 42.6, U.K. 38.4, France 29.5, Germany 24.9, Saudi Arabia 21.3, Italy 19.4, India 15.6, South Korea 14.1, Brazil* 10.7, Taiwan* 10.7, Israel 10.6, Spain 8.4, Australia 7.6, Canada 7.6, Netherlands 6.6, Turkey 5.8, Mexico 5.9, Kuwait* 3.9, Ukraine 5.0, Iran 4.8, Singapore 4.8, Sweden 4.5, Egypt* 4.4, Norway 3.8, Greece 3.5, Poland 3.5, Argentina* 3.3, U.A.E.* 3.1,

[kduncan]: Colombia* 2.9, Belgium 2.7, Pakistan* 2.6, Denmark 2.4, Vietnam 2.4, North Korea 2.1, Czech Republic 1.6, Iraq 1.4, Philippines 1.4, Portugal 1.3, Libya 1.2, Hungary 1.1, Syria 1.0, Cuba 0.8, Sudan 0.6, Yugoslavia 0.7, Luxembourg 0.2 Total spent by the Axis of Evil countries: 24 billion. 

[Flowing Destiny]: because I knew the information was biased and I didnt want to hear info taken out of context and twisted to suit their needs. So if you'll kindly stop taking what I say and twisting it around I'd appreciate it. And our spending is more because for one, we are a larger country. And 2 we have a larger military than all of the other countries. And third we also have more high tech weapons and aircraft and such.

[Maurer's conclusions]: USA doesn't have the largest military in the world...

[Flowing Destiny]: And this borgen project seems a little biased too. Poverty reduction for political accountability? I can tell because it has our "military" budget and how much it would take to fix all of their "important" issues.

[Flowing Destiny]: I never said in the world I said we have one larger than the other countries she posted referring to the "Borgen project"

[kduncan]: Honey, I'm a flight instructor, I'm a bit more aware than you are that there are different time zones in the US. Angel Zadkiel, are you saying you're trying to argue your point without even LOOKING at the information? Do you realise how ignarant and foolish that is? Do you realise that the quotes on the opening page are DIRECT QUOTES from Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld? If you don't like what they are saying, perhaps you should have.. voted Democrat. You're really saying the info is incorrect WITHOUT EVEN LOOKING AT IT??? wheee.. you're the kind of voter Bush loves.

[kduncan]: Lemme give you a hint here: I've worked with the US military as a flight instructor. In college I paid my way through school as a research assistant and worked part time in the reference section of the library. People, like you, who can't be bothered to check references and look up information to verify whether or not it's valid ARE IDIOTS. Do us all a favour: I told you to avoid this wiki and avoid tension, that you'll live longer.. I was wrong. Keep coming here. It'll be one less Republican vote next election.

[Maurer's conclusions]: Zadkiel, are you saying that the elimination of starvation and malnutrition, the providing of shelter, the removal of landmines, the elimination of nuclear weapons, the relief of refugees, the elimination of illiteracy, providing potable water, stabilising population and prevent soil erosion are unimportant issues?

[Flowing Destiny]: No I dont like how they depict the president and the current administration. And now you make assumptions and again you are twisting what I said. I didnt even go on cause for one I didnt have the time and I knew that the information would be biased and that I couldnt trust what was said in there cause I figured it would be that biased that it might not be true. I never said it wasnt true or that al your info is wrong or a lie. Get it right. Stop taking what I say and turning it into what you want to hear which seems to be that I'm an IGNORANT, thats spelled with an o not an a, when it seems you are the one being ignorant of what I say as well. Im not saying that I'm not ignorant(cont)

[kduncan]: Angel Zadkiel: "I looked at the opening page for the site and I didnt even go in because I knew the information was biased and I didnt want to hear info taken out of context and twisted to suit their needs." Care to.. rephrase? Honey, I'm not twisting your words, I'm quoting you. And I could go back and pick out your spelling errors too, but I realise that everyone makes a typo now and then, but in your case.. it's a great many typos.

[Flowing Destiny]: I'm just saying you are taking things out of context. I never said that they werent important. I said what they think is important. What they think is important does not concern me. Right now I am concerned about Iraq because my neighbor is going there and I probably will be going to because I am going to be in the Armed forces. And I see how you can be biased against republicans. For some reason you dislike us for some reason that you have. I am friends with many democrats and the only thing they do that pisses me off is that they talk about all this political crap after the election is over and they cant do anything about it. And I am not tense or stressful. I am fine because(cont

[Flowing Destiny]: I know that you are that politicaly biased against bush and his supporters so I think you are trying to bully me out of here when all I'm trying to do is offer a different point of view. Do you want everyone to have the same political views as you? Answer that for me

[Flowing Destiny]: I never said what was ON the opening page was biased I said what was IN the site was probably biased and I never went into the site

[Maurer's conclusions]: If you never went into the site, how can you hope to know that it was biased?